Is ATS dead?

topic posted Thu, May 8, 2008 - 12:48 AM by  Susan
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I love ATS. Why is this tribe site so DEAD?

I can't blame this outburst of mine on any hormonal imbalance. It seems that we only get posts for events and no discussions. I have posted events to this site, so I can't stow thrones. Guess I am just shitty that ATS is barely alive in Newcastle. Been working at it now for 3 years. Don't get me wrong, I have really enjoyed teaching, mostly because it has been very life affirming and educational for me too.

Newcastle has too many belly dance schools, and with some exceptions, they aren't particularly noted for their expertise in any one style, they just fiddle about with whatever takes their fancy or builds their student numbers. This sounds mean to the teachers who have worked hard and long to build their schools. I take off my hat to them.

I have been the only teacher (who has come very late in age to this kind of enterprise) teaching ATS FCBD. It is a fantastic style of dance - and the camaraderie of the troupe dancers is really lovely. Tribal generally doesn't have the bitchiness between schools that other oriental dance schools experience.

Well, I've had my grumble. It makes me feel better too!!!

Susan
posted by:
Susan
Australia
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  • Re: Is ATS dead?

    Thu, May 8, 2008 - 4:23 AM
    hehe hi Susan....sometimes I feel like I'm the only one online with a voice too so I hear you

    Ive turned my back on ATS right now....fallen under the captivating spell of GC....not going to do the argument for/against/stuff that seems to go on much too often for regular posters to the Tribal Bellydance tribe...just for us it feels right, been given a big turnaround and direction and it just feels so much more natural and beautiful for us. (looking forward to pulling out some GC moves at tribal fest in september tho hehe) so thats where we are now.

    ATS is what drew me here, seeing Jill Parker in that amazing performance on FCBD live, with the purple choli and you know I remember thinking OMG what is she doing? took ages before I realised some of those steps were in our vocab, but still it felt like a different world, whereas now its pretty awesome to find the inspiration in the dvds and recognise whats going on, and especially dance with the people who invented this style....I have to tell you dancing with Paulette at the jam in Cairns was HUGE for me, you know, i could dance with her, i felt all starstruck!

    I'll jump on a limb and tell you that if i taught just ATS my classes would have emptied long ago....I had to find the mix that worked and now its interesting changing the recipe

    up here we're still kinda the tribal freaks a bit, to the point we just do our own thing - how does the other community make you feel welcome?
  • Re: Is ATS dead?

    Thu, May 8, 2008 - 11:18 AM
    This trend is global, I think. I am a teacher and performer in Las Vegas and I have had the same experience with the decline in popularity of ATS, or Tribal Improv. My feeling is that it involves too much commitment for the average person. Whereas in Tribal Fusion or Cabaret a student can simply learn a choreograpy, with ATS you have to form a "Tribe" of women who dedicate themselves to learning the tiniest nuances of each others movements and learning a new, shared vocabulary. I have a small dedicated group of women here who are doing beautifully with my dual sided style of Tribal Improv, but my Tribal Fusion classes and workshops are definitely more popular! The saddest part to me is that in order to truly dance Tribal Fusion, it is essential to have a background in American Tribal Style or another format of Tribal Improv such as GC style. Thanks for starting this discussion! I am really interested in learning more about the direction of Tribal Bellydance in various parts of the world and you asked the very question I was dying to ask about ATS in Australia.

    Happy dancing!
    • Re: Is ATS dead?

      Thu, May 8, 2008 - 3:13 PM
      Hey Dee and Britt

      thanks for your thoughtful input. Two years ago a prominent Australian teacher in ATS said to me that it was sad to see fusion take hold, especially since the ATS (improv) development hadn't been fully realised in Australia.

      I have no other dancing experience, no youth spent with toes stuffed into pointe shoes. My post menopausal age has effected my memory. This is where ATS - expecially FCBD works in so well for me. There is less skin exposed, steps with names, rules about cueing, and what steps work together and what don't. It seems that in FCBD at least, it is a format that allows dancers to be creative about what they do, while still performing within a well designed guideline.

      ATS suits any sized or age woman. In the troupe there is no bias towards the young and slim. Each dancer respects the others.

      Then there is the costuming. It is very flattering and lots and lots of fun to make. ATS has a kind of gravitas, authenticity and cultural respectibility that is missing from some fusion performances. I don't want to look like an overweight middle aged person in a choli-less underwear with coins, tight pants on my huge bottom, a few dreads and attitude. I don't have enough talent to carry that off.

      My students want to embrace fusion, which I can't teach, so while they want to remain loyal to our little group, I'd be happy to be taught in fusion and take on some of the costuming, but my first love is ATS.

      Britt, you are right, it does take a lot of commitment which I have, but am looking for like minded people! Sounds like a personal Ad. here.
      • Re: Is ATS dead?

        Thu, May 8, 2008 - 3:34 PM
        hehe Susan one of my teachers used to say that Tribal was the thinking womans bellydance!

        I also think its just one of those art forms too that can take sooooo long to learn or master, I've had various students come to me wanting to know when when when will they be able to perform it and its just so not about delivering that result i find. Tribal to me is an investment, and its about respect and trust - and when you're dancing with others, invading their space it takes time to get that intimate feeling that is both weird but wonderful.

        I love RB, think shes amazing but you know I'd be happier if there was just one RB, the fusion clones who you see on youtube who've literally lifted a performance that she's spent years creating/mastering and studying, I'm not interested in tribal fusion either and am pretty open with my students about this, and i've shared many a conversation with perhaps the same teacher you mention about my own opinion which is that its quite beautiful to the eye but as a dancer I dont feel that same connection within the tribes who practice this form. Tribal Fusion is an individuals dance I personally find, its about what that person is feeling/emoting in that moment....whereas tribal being ATS/GC etc to me is about sharing the dance with the others and communicating on that level.

        I dig the costuming too! Im not a small girl, so if i show too much flesh its not quite flattering, i feel its a bit like second skin at times....and you are right its so much about the dancer not the size or package. I'd like some taller girls to dance with is my perpetual moan but really for me its about being fit and being able to lead/follow and not break the moves!

        I've always tried to be an improv bunny too, having first been introduced to tribal within the delivery of choreography and finding it stifling, and when I first started middle eastern dance thats how we learned, whereas tribal actually gives each dancer their own voice to the dance.
        Thats something ive often felt - that to give your students improv skills is trust isnt it, its trust they'll take you somewhere you know and trust in yourself as a teacher too....

        • Re: Is ATS dead?

          Thu, May 8, 2008 - 6:43 PM
          I have found a similar thing. I tried changing one of my classes into an ATS class, rather than my normal class style and it didn't go too well. Students found it difficult, they were used to learning a choreography a term and being able to perform it immediately. When they were pulled right back, and had to concentrate on posture, cues and a new style, they dropped off and wouldn't come to class - add zills into the equation and it was a disaster!

          What I decided to do was to teach one tribal fusion choreography a year for each class, we start it in first term (to give them as long as possible to practice and feel comfortable with the moves), building on their vocab as they learn more choreography. I explain if a move is ATS, GC or one of our own - I always teach the cue for the move and always use the cue in the choreography. As we get towards the end of the choreography I then introduce the next dance (in a different style). A couple of students have fallen in love with tribal and that makes it worth while. For the ones who find that tribal fusion isn't really their thing, they know that there will always be something different coming up.

          Last year for the first time we actually had a troupe of around 15 students dancing ATS! It took a lot of convincing to get them away from choreography, but they did it, and I was so proud of them.
          • Re: Is ATS dead?

            Thu, May 8, 2008 - 10:17 PM
            yep seems to me that there are very few who teach /perform ATS solely. Do you think everyone thinks it too simple??!! I totally love ATS & am not a Gypsy Caravan fan (it is beautiful in its own right but i have no desire to mix the two). My inspirations are FCBD & Rachel Brice (lets face it - who doesnt love her?) & great Egyptian & Moroccan music. After General Skills last year i came home & said to myself im only going to teach ATS, then looked at all the work we've done over 14 yrs or so & thought heh my own stuff is ok & has taken years to develop - i cant throw that out - lets just adopt Carolena's Tribal philosophy into our dance.
            In class I tend to introduce basic ATS alongside 'generic' bellydance(ie Egyptian(folk) to my beginners. And give them a simple choreography but it is usually more of a follow me type of choreography (often a combo of ATS & Bellydance) - listen for cues in the music.
            Advanced class is very much ATS & getting it looking good! & then our own style of Tribal fusion (but i tell them which is which - though people dont always listen or hear). & some choreography too to to satisy that basic! need. Every class is based on technique, posture, following the leader & then dancing in small groups (when dancers have a few of the basics under the belt). In beginners you to be flexible to a point as some students are not fit, have little stamina & no desire to perform...... ever. Yes i lose students for various reasons (lets face it many women just want to wear sequins & swan around the room to classical egyptian orchestra!).. That's not me & i have no desire to be that - people can & will choose to stay or not - c'est la vie!
            I do not dance to modern music cos i feel it does not have any connection to Middle Eastern dance & is a bit of a cop out.

            so....... my advice is to stay true to yourself & your own ambiltions, be gentle on beginners & a little tough on 'advanced' dancers - if they want to be advanced there are more expectations of them (including attending beginners classes when they can! - makes them so much stronger & aware). I heard a little quip from an ex student of mine via the grapevine "we dont have fun anymore in class! "(reference to advanced class). when i invited said person to come to beginners when she couldnt make the advanced class she said it was 'too easy"!! OMG what a joke - please some of the people some of the some time etc etc
            back to "is ATS dead?" its just having a nap - great news for those remaining ATS teachers heh. So good on you Susan if you can manage to mantain that - if they want to do fusion & you dont - challenge them - introduce zils, make them lead & be picky about their posture, arms, hips actually working or just stepping thru the moves? etc etc
            good luck - keep dancin
            Madonna
            • Re: Is ATS dead?

              Fri, May 9, 2008 - 4:06 PM
              You don't know how relieved I am to hear that others have found this problem! Not that ATS is difficult to get going, but more that it isn't a reflection on my teaching!

              I really think of ATS as a long term commitment, most people don't have the time, energy or desire to commit themselves to something for years, they want to do something and see instant results.
              • Re: Is ATS dead?

                Fri, May 9, 2008 - 4:43 PM
                This is exactly it! No such thing as instant results. It is all hard work and dedication.........well, and lots of fun! Gotta enjoy it , right?

                And as with every form and style within each form, people have their own stylistic preferences and creative changes that they want to make. The opening up of the world to all of the wonderful, diverse artists out there is key as well. As aforementioned, it wouldn't be nearly as exciting if there were only FCBD and RB clones out there!
                • Re: Is ATS dead?

                  Fri, May 9, 2008 - 7:16 PM
                  Hi all. ATS is alive and well in Perth! We have a fairly new troupe going called Tribalive! and have some experienced tribal dancers as well as brand new ones all lapping up ATS! A few of us also do GC and tribal fusion in other troupes but personally... nothing compares!
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Is ATS dead?

                    Fri, May 9, 2008 - 7:18 PM
                    PS At least 4 of our troupe are booked in to do Carolena's intensive in August!! Woo hoooo!!
                    • Re: Is ATS dead?

                      Fri, May 9, 2008 - 11:20 PM
                      Perth does have some great tribal dancers - I guess where I am coming from is that when teaching students seem to prefer "instant" results rather than spending twelve months to two years learning something before performing. So how do you get students interested in ATS, GC or some hybrid form without your class sizes diminishing?

                      We do seem to have a rather quiet tribe here too. Maybe there needs to be more effort into opening up discussions. :-) (hand up, guilty of it here - but mainly because I didn't feel comfortable posting cos I taught a hybrid fusion and wasn't pure ATS!).
                      • Re: Is ATS dead?

                        Sat, May 10, 2008 - 2:29 AM
                        well...my classes actually increased when I added more GC content. im now 3 yrs into it so I can share my experiences if its any help....I started doing ATS predominantly and gees it was hard that first year, I didnt have a following nor a good class base to start with, the drop in dilemna meant a lot of people came once - sometimes 4 times then I never saw them again. Winter classes, man I remember going to the studio and no one turning up some weeks! I quickly learned to give a quick nudge to anyone showing potential into a second class which was more advanced than the basics....and I took on feedback from my mentors and peers and literally added a whole dimension with GC vocab creeping in.

                        I'll wager anyone that a series of combos being the pestle, hip offering, hip sway and circle step put a big smile on the girls who were coming - whereas the pivot bump....I love it but come on, its a challenging move and back then I didnt have the understanding of what I wanted in basics so they got it...gees and isnt that a great move to learn!

                        For the better part of a year I was a tribal soloist - Madonna will recall my sad little performance at her haffla in june....bit of a nigel but I wanted the girls to do improv so I didnt want to take them out til they were ready. and even though we officially "debuted" in brissy in august it was with the help of my tribal sisters who jumped buses/planes etc to come out on stage while my girls just followed. I guess for me I didnt have that burning urge to put them out before they're ready and that made it a bit easier? At the end of year 1 I could be confident in a pretty average performance with me leading most of the time, and maybe a change or two.

                        Year 2, all of a sudden the numbers started to grow for me - a big part thanks to ypages and an online presence, I'd picked up some real strengths in that some girls I used to learn dance with had leaped onto the blossom wagon so my performance troupe was boosted by some numbers, and I was able to relax more into just providing lots of drills/technique to get the other girls comfortable. That year we also started going out, getting our faces out there and getting comfortable with performing....taking workshops to get others into it, and weirdness we started getting that following I guess, where I was blessed to have some girls join me who'd been dancing in other locations and that added a whole strength to the performance group. I was also lucky to have one of my girls start teaching basics, then i skilled another up - which not only meant it wasnt all on my shoulders, it gave me the opportunity to sit down and put in place my basics vocab, an understanding of what I needed to see at basic level....and I had some interesting conversations with my dance friends about it but the fact was I was and am working full time, so didnt need to be at the front door in my opinion, it gave the girls something extra for their own dance goals and I got to play with the ones who were more dedicated.

                        Now three years and I cant believe the growth again - and part of it I guess is the general community is more aware of tribal now as a style, youtube and a good website that is regularly watered ( yeah Im online a lot so im onto it), and im really lucky to have girls that have been with me a good chunk of the way so theres a big knowledge base. However in saying that one of my newest recruits has been with us since July and OMG can she dance! But we've been happily going on our integrated (or as you say hybrid) fashion up until we went to Cairns, hung out with Paulette and had our dance turned around - to the point we're following that investment. And its opened up the opportunity to sit down with all the "old" troupe and set down expectations and understand what their goals are, to the point the "troupe" is changing this very month and OMG its both a relief and a bit scary.

                        so I guess in saying that....my experience was - to learn what I wanted in my students, and get clear about how to deliver that tuition, encourage the ones who showed potential but literally just take off that performance hat til they're ready - really it pays off in the end.

                        I've also been pretty blessed to have some good friendships develop with others around me who practice this style - yeah a bit of love goes to madonna's way there - as turning up at their events, feeling SO welcome, having the girls with me for the weekend its those sort of things that foster that troupe spirit as well as getting the students to see where this dance can take us. I imagine the sydney girls are pretty close too with all the jams etc that go on - I think it can take the isolation out and make people feel like this is that big worldly dance that we ALL can do.

                        I've always tried to encourage extra-curriculum activities too - doing a girls night in event, dvds to show tribal stuff at my house and occasional dinners, I guess once you've got your core....they'll hopefully be with you to the end? gees I only hope so but I'm learning too so I don't know everything!
                        • Re: Is ATS dead?

                          Sat, May 10, 2008 - 4:54 PM
                          Oh, thank you everyone for your thoughtful and meaningful replies. I am staying with my son and partner and my ONE YEAR OLD grandson. Mother's day and birthday weekend.

                          When I get home, I will re-read everyone's replies as I know there are some really important things for me to take on board. One of the things that stand out for me is being clear what I want for the students/troupe. I have been a little uncertain about what to do, and after reading the replies by Friday afternoon, helped me to focus on what I want. Guess what, first day back at class and I had double the usual students. The vibe was fantastic, everyone had been to my classes before, so it was friendly, with a lot of drilling and improv.

                          More from me soon ...

                          Cheers, Susan
  • Re: Is ATS dead?

    Tue, June 3, 2008 - 9:44 PM
    Susan,
    know your bliss & go with it! Yes, include the 'picky' bits Madonna mentioned, & also, challenge yourself as a teacher. I'm a stickler for posture, commitment & passion, in fact I have a '3 P' request of my students - Passion, Pressence & Panache! Constantly pushing the envelope with incentive-based lessons plus turns at lead & follow. We are a team, both sharing & owning the dance.

    Teaching is a business, & our (dance) foundations are what we started with. We must never be afraid of change, in fact, encourage it, being 'in charge' of the directional changes, encouraging growth, & never forgetting where we began - it is the trunk of our ever-growing tree, & it's our responsibility to nurture its growth. It doesn't happen overnight, but it does happen (Rachel Hunter cliche), with patience.

    You know your truth - honour it! More power to you Susan.

    Gypsie blessings,
    Annie x
    • Re: Is ATS dead?

      Tue, June 3, 2008 - 10:37 PM
      Hi Annie

      Well, since my last post, I had decided to quit teaching ATS due to lack of numbers and continually being out of pocket. Although there there was the passion and posture, there was not much commitment. So I sent an email to my students canceling classes and canceling the studio hire, and within a few days I had heard from a lot of students asking me to continue teaching. Yeah, so this week I source a cheaper place to teach (my garage isn't big enough) and then I start getting people pulling out of rehearsals. (Does this mean I will be out of pocket again???? It is really piss offing!!!

      Hey, I'd better get off the computer and back to doing something creative.

      Cheers, Susan
  • Re: Is ATS dead?

    Thu, June 5, 2008 - 2:52 PM
    Hi all, I've been dancing solely ATS for about 8 years in New Zealand. My teacher was the amazing Susan Brown, who of course moved to the USA when she got married.

    When she left I found myself without a teacher, so began teaching myself through the necessity of having others to dance with. I've been teaching solely FCBD ATS in a small town in the North Island for nearly 4 years now, and completed the Gen Skills with Carolena.

    I'm happy with my small number of dedicated students. I have a beginners level with 4 students and a more advanced group of 5. I require them to sign up for a "course" which is one term, and ask them to pay up front. I've found that casual classes just don't work with ATS because you're learning something new every week and building on that knowledge. Some drop away after level 1 or 2, but I usually get at least one student who is progressing well and continues to the next level.

    We recently had Devi from Ghawazi Caravan over here for a weekend workshop which was fantastic. My girls are now more commited than ever to ATS thanks to her.

    Sure, there's loads of other stuff out there but I do believe you need a really good grounding in ATS before moving on to any other style of Tribal bellydance. I'd love to see some Aussie/Kiwi discussions happening on this site!
    • Re: Is ATS dead?

      Fri, June 6, 2008 - 6:40 PM
      Hi Everyone

      I've been teaching performing Bellydance for over 12 years and It is my full time profession. I have found that experimenting and introducing different styles such as ATS, Tribal Fusion, Bollywood etc has kept my long term students stimulated and interested and new students flowing in who may not necessary answer an advertisement for general bellydance classes. It has given choice for those who do love the glamour and the glitz and those who like the more earthy look and feel and for the different tastes of music, Bollywood/Indian fusion styles and some of the newer sounds of Tribal music brings a new generation of dancers. It allows me as a teacher to explore outside the box and gives me alot of creative freedom. Fusion is not about just throwing anything together. Fusion is very deliberate in keeping both styles flowing seamlessly throughout. It takes deepth and knowledge of each style not only of the technique but of the essence. In regard to Tribal my beginner classes start with basic ATS as a grounding. I make up short combinations of these for drilling purposes so they begin to feel comfortable with transitions etc. I do explain all the cues and what impro is as we go. But I agree with the teacher who said that if you are going keep the beginner students long enough for them to gain confidence,appreciation and passion for this style, choreogrpahys in the first year is the way to go. It takes a huge amount of confidence, skill and execution to do impro well. Most students don't like to be thrown into feeling they have to lead. Even though you say to them "you don't have to take the lead" I'm sure they feel they ought to be able to. I have been teaching my Tribal Troupe class all sorts of fusion choreographies over the past couple of years and they are really enjoying the journey. And even though we've had our ups and downs they have stuck together and have that sisterly, tribal bonding. I don't believe you have to do ATS impro to experience that connection and trust. I have seen at different times, on and off that connection with all my classes, Bollywood, belly whichever. Its about learning and dancing together and sharing a common experience that bonds a group.
      I think every style teaches us something new within ourselves and I am so grateful we have so many innovative teachers out there sharing their passion.
      Shameela
    • Re: Is ATS dead?

      Fri, June 6, 2008 - 6:43 PM
      Yes, all I can say is it is a roller coaster ride - I'd love to say I've been dancing ATS for about 8 years! I'd like to do the course fees, but some Novocastrians are afraid of commitment. The population is too small to sustain a sizable troupe that can take the occasional circumstance of people having to pull out due to other commitments.

      So now on the upward ride of the roller coaster, I found out about a small hall in my town, for a reasonable rent, and last night I had 9 students (better than the usual 2 or 3 some nights). They have all ordered costumes from Mirahmar and are saying they want to perform at the Trance and Tribal Festival in September, as well as the Soiree in Gosford in August. GET THAT!

      What next week will bring I just can't foretell!

      In Newcastle there is a dance festival in July and I am making cholis, tassle belts and pantaloons, and Antonia is making dreadlocks to sell. Antonia is a fantastic artist and will be selling prints of her artwork of tribal dancers. So we have that to look forward to and Devi will be teaching there too!

      I feel like this has been a bit of a blog for me - aaarrrggghhh - don't go there Susan. It has been wonderful to read of other people's experiences.

      Cheers
      • Re: Is ATS dead?

        Fri, June 6, 2008 - 6:44 PM
        Also, Mirahmar is known as Earth Mother Creations on tribe. She will be selling at the Trance and Tribal Festival too.
        • Re: Is ATS dead?

          Sat, June 7, 2008 - 11:40 PM
          Hi Shameela, good to have you on tribe, and speaking out. One thing I'd like to clarify about how I feel about tribal fusion. When I see your performances, I always get goose bumps and love what you do. I respect your experience and the work you do on behalf of your students.

          Speaking to tribal belly dance, generally, my preference not to do tribal fusion is mostly because I don't have experience in other styles of dance, so I feel I would lack "authenticity" which would come across either in my teaching or performance. So I applaud the talented tribal fusion teachers and performers.

          The other aspect I'd like to mention is that American Tribal Style (and here I acknowledge there are a few predominant styles out there) is such a strong look, and I love that. In itself ATS is a fusion - we all know that. However, less experienced dancers and teachers try to incorporate other styles of dance, taking ATS (or let us just say "tribal") further and further away from its origins - that is to say, Oriental dance with a more folkloric look.

          The truly modern fusion is getting so far away from Oriental, that the ONLY thing that links it with Oriental is that some ATS and Oriental dancers took the form in another direction other than Oriental. Not a bad thing necessarily it is that it has muddied the waters, so to speak, about ATS and tribal fusion.

          It is a shame that ATS hasn't had much time in Australia to grow strong before Fusion took hold which has diluted what Carolena and Paulette had developed.

          Well, this is another 2 bob's worth from me. (Where is apostrophe man?)
          • Re: Is ATS dead?

            Tue, June 10, 2008 - 12:02 AM
            Hey Shameela

            thanks for hosting your bazaar yesterday. I can't believe how quickly the time disappeared. Thanks for the opportunity to have a dance/jam with the drummers and your students and troupe. I had a blast! Just goes to show that improv and sharing the dance with others does have its benefits - dancing with others in the ATS style (and not necessarily to an audience) was such a wonderful experience. One we don't experience very often.

            Again, thanks Shameela.

            Cheers, Susan
  • Re: Is ATS dead?

    Sun, June 8, 2008 - 4:32 PM
    ok seeing others have put their stories in, I thought I had better as well.

    I am in Hobart and tribal is very quiet here... mainly because there is just me teaching it and to be honest I don't go out of my way to find new students.... I own a business, which is not quite full time, but close to it and have a 7 and 9 year old, so finding time to practise let alone teach can be too much at times. So I decided to teach for fun, and if it covers my costs well and good - which it probably doesn't, but then if I were learning from someone else it would cost me more!

    I love ATS, and I suppose we use the philosophy of improv - I have only taught one choreography in the last four years. I tend to lean towards Gypsy Caravan, for some reason it seems more fun - though am not really sure why. Also after doing Collective Soul with Paulette earlier in the year, I found it much easier on the body than the FC stuff (but that is just my opinion). So basically we blend bits of everything, but keep it improv.

    I do need to find some more students soon, as had a three move interstate, and one about to have a baby, which leaves me with a fairly small group of around six or so. The trouble I have now is getting others into it, and keeping them ..... Hobart isn't that big and I probably need to do some serious advertising to get a group of newbies, but again that costs money that I don't really have! Oh well - like I said I tend to do it for fun, anyway and will think about getting new students when the weather warms up later in the year. Might even try and adult education course?

    Hobart has quite a few belly dance teachers, so competition is pretty fierce, with none of the belly dance teachers really liking tribal at all... one of them described it to me as group female masturbation - whilst she was at my place of work and in front of one of my employees!!! So I am unlikely to get students from any other belly dance.... which is fine, cos I am competition to them after all, but at the same time it would be nice to not have that sort of thing said about what I do.

    I am not going to the tribal fest this year, I want to save money to possibly bring Paulette to Tas next year (she will likely do WA and SA as well), and I want to go to Mirahmar in SA to brush up my GC skills later in the year, so there goes all the funds!

    Well ladies nice to see what everyone is up to.... Madonna I am so glad you aren't going soley ATS, cos you are an amazing dancer, and I love all that folk and Hilal/beladi stuff as well (that is the only time I miss belly dancing is when all the baladi type music comes on - love the old style Hilal stuff)

    Denise
    • Re: Is ATS dead?

      Mon, June 9, 2008 - 11:58 PM
      Hey Denise, good to hear from you too. A friend of mine is awed by Soyria Hilal (spelling). I think I had better get out there and take a look too. Are there Youtube vids of her?

      Cheers, Susan
      • Re: Is ATS dead?

        Wed, June 11, 2008 - 12:29 AM
        Hi

        It is Suraya Hilal - if you google Hilal Dance you will find her website which has some clips of her. I like the older stuff, which isn't there, now she is Contemporary Egyptian would be how I put it... nice but not as awe inspiring as her older stuff. Her ideas are alittle odd (my opinion only!) in that she doesn't see her self as a belly dancer, and indeed if you go to her classes, school etc, then you are "forbidden" to go to belly dance shows, haflas, or call yourself a belly dancer. She wants to disassociate herself from the lowly art of belly dance.

        So overall I think she is kinda odd - but I LOVE her old style Baladi stuff.

        Well off to class - probably only about 4-5 there if that, but well they are committed, so that is ok

        Denise
    • Re: Is ATS dead?

      Thu, June 12, 2008 - 5:00 PM
      Hi everyone... I have to hijack this thread to pick up on Denise's experience of having tribal "described as group female masturbation" ...... In this crazy world that has some women behaving as meat puppets( in not just only the entertainment industry) surely a little self pleasuring is a good thing! The power, beauty and strength that is inherent in tribal style belly dance is not about performing for the male gaze. I am sure we are all connected by fact that we dance as a gift to ourselves . (God knows there are plenty of other things we could be doing !) I believe that we only grow and develop personally and professionally with commitment, passion and support from our peers. It takes guts and determination to get up and dance and to have this trust undermined by the insane conditioning that is prevalent in our society pisses me off. No wonder we have topics titled ' Is ATS dead?' Evangeline
      • Re: Is ATS dead?

        Thu, June 19, 2008 - 11:29 PM
        Right on the money, Evangeline! I have discovered that there is NOTHING more threatening to men, and for that matter many women, than empowered women, and that is exactly what tribal improv is. Not just a group of powerful women dancing together, but a group of women who have learned a new language and are speaking it to each other with their bodies. I think that connection between the dancers is one of the many things that first sucked me in (oh, and the costumes, music, makeup, etcetcetc!).

        BTW, i am one of those not-committed-enough people in Newie that Susan has been complaining about! Does it count that i'm 175% committed to the dance in my mind and heart, but just can't find enough hours in the week to juggle all the aspects of my life? ;-)
        • Re: Is ATS dead?

          Fri, June 20, 2008 - 12:20 AM
          "Not just a group of powerful women dancing together, but a group of women who have learned a new language and are speaking it to each other with their bodies. I think that connection between the dancers is one of the many things that first sucked me in (oh, and the costumes, music, makeup, etcetcetc!). "

          Terijo, and I thought you just wanted to dance with me and hold my hand and teach me my manners.

          Love, S
        • Re: Is ATS dead?

          Wed, June 25, 2008 - 12:39 AM
          Far from being dead, I see ATS as just ramping up! So many new teachers in Adelaide, lots of interest from students, and lots of people who are very interested in the dance style when I tell them about it. It seems to be a litte-known style and I'd love to see it gain some attention. After 3 years as a student I'd hate to think I came late to the party!
          Go get 'em, Evangeline! Show people how powerful women can be when they have knowledge of their own bodies and minds.

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